jesus appeared to paul

Paul’s rabbinical teacher was Gamaliel. Mary “of Clopas” is often interpreted as Mary, “wife of Clopas”. Also, what is it with the 12/13 ambiguity? Even in this case, Dr Ehrman notes “If he [Paul] knew a lot, he certainly doesn’t *indicate* that he knew a lot”. That one of his close disciples betrayed Jesus is rather embarrassing. Extremely difficult to do – I understand. Well, here’s some. 2. Paul, I think, tends to stay away from controversial subjects as much as possible. Is there any evidence/debate that this may have occurred? [web 1], According to Biblical scholar Géza Vermes, the resurrection is to be understood as a reviving of the self-confidence of the followers of Jesus, under the influence of the Spirit, "prompting them to resume their apostolic mission." You can see how I try to work it out in my book The Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot (where I try to explain what really happened), Click Here for all Posts in a List Format. Paul doesn’t use that word: he uses the word ADELPHOS (literally a “brother”). [17] He has little interest in Jesus' resurrected body, except to say that it is not a this-worldly one: in his Letter to the Philippians he describes how the resurrected Christ is exalted in a new body utterly different from one he had when he wore "the appearance of a man," and holds out a similar glorified state when Christ "will transform our lowly body," as the goal of the Christian life. If I am not mistaken I believe Paul was constantly dealing with Greek ideas that would infiltrate into the teachings about Christ. This is justified by the fact that cousins were also called “brothers” and “sisters” in Jesus’ native language, Aramaic, which, like Biblical Hebrew, does not contain a word for cousin. There are 4 opinions on this “500 witnesses event”: Pity Umberto Eco never got around to it. Nowhere did Paul ever say that Jesus’ resurrection was in the flesh… always in … Which Greek word is used in the gospels? The Road-to-Damascus Jesus tells Paul while Paul is in prayer in the Temple to leave Jerusalem without seeing the 12 apostles because "Jesus" was sending him to the Gentiles. For example: Islam, did not fragment into more than 2 religions until 400 years after Mohamed had passed away. The 500 rank and file “brothers” were likely not. I suppose though, that this doesn’t necessarily mean that it was a common tradition in Paul’s time a few decades earlier. Christianity’s Uniqueness Based on the Resurrection of Jesus: Whenever I read something that has, as it’s foundation, an “argument from silence”, I am immediately suspicious. These independent attestations seems to add significant weight to the idea that Judas was attached to the historical Jesus, and hence argues against mythicism. If you would like to ask a question, simply ask it in your comment. [20] In Luke, Jesus appears to Cleopas and an unnamed disciple on the road to Emmaus, to Peter (reported by the other apostles), and to the eleven remaining disciples at a meeting with others. Jesus instructed them to cast their net on the other side of the boat. [1] Others interpret these accounts as visionary experiences. Dorcas Restored to Life. The context of the gospels seems clear, but Paul wrote much earlier. Would you mind sharing what this profound betrayal was? 12th of 12 Jesus appears to the disciples with another commission, Luke 24:44-49 & Acts 1:3-8. Is there another book I should be reading? Thus, Paul knew the apostles personally and reports that they claimed that Jesus rose from the dead. Judas may have believed in a coming Kingdom, but *not* in any kind of “Messiah.” And after the crucifixion, he had no regrets; he went on to have a long and reasonably happy life. I also be lieve he was consumed by guilt and committed suicide, but not by hanging himself. In the third, the Jerusalem garrison follows Judas, who unwittingly brings them to Jesus. But Paul supposedly met Peter before writing any of his epistles. So when Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15 that the risen Christ appeared individually to both Peter and James, he was effectively saying “I know this because I have heard their story first hand”. This is why attempts at harmonizing the stories often does violence to the texts–it completely misses the true meaning each author is trying to convey. So we must ask if a man has the chutzpah to steal another’s story is it more likely he would halve the number saved or double it to make him look heroic? We are told Satan entered into him. [13] There is general agreement that the list is pre-Pauline – it is often called a catechism of the early church – but less on how much of the list belongs to the tradition and how much is from Paul: most scholars feel that Peter and the Twelve are original, but not all believe the same of the appearances to the 500, James and "all the Apostles". [50] Ehrman further notes that visions usually have a strong persuasive power, but that the Gospel-accounts also record a tradition of doubt about the appearances of Jesus. They told others about those visions, convincing most of their close associates that Jesus was raised from the dead, but not all of them. Acts 9:1-9 Jesus appears to Saul (also called Paul) five years later (in 35AD) on the road to Damascus in Syria (see 4 on Map 14). The authors of Matthew (c. 80 – c. 90 CE) and Luke–Acts (a two-part work by the same anonymous author, usually dated to around 80–90 CE) based their lives of Jesus on the Gospel of Mark. Here Paul identifies himself as one of Jesus’ resurrection eyewitnesses despite the fact that he became a Christian years after Jesus’ crucifixion. According to both sources, Paul was not a follower of Jesus and did not know him before his crucifixion. But wasn’t Judas’ betrayal mentioned in all four gospels? I don’t know who invented the version in the gospels, but it’s just silly. [53], According to Gerd Lüdemann, Peter had a vision of Jesus, induced by his feelings of guilt of betraying Jesus. I find it interesting that Paul seems to suggest Cephas wasn’t one of the twelve: “and that He appeared to Cephas and then to the Twelve.”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_papyri. "[47] These visions may mostly have appeared during corporate worship. Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; …he had risen. The erased passage comes after the account of the magi just when the narration turns to Joseph and Mary. Of course, someone could do the apologist’s quick step and say that the twelve included Peter, but Peter was the first of the twelve. If it didn’t really happen, stories like that had to be invented, to show him either repenting (too late) or “getting his just deserts.”. He made a terrible mistake and his “good” intentions resulted in disaster. It’s very hard to get a consistent tradition if that tradition is based on individual visions (revelations) and scripture interpretations only. The reason I ask is notice that at the start of chapter 16 where Timothy is introduced the author starts to use the first-person plural. I’ve got my Jameses mixed up. We often call “a president,” “President ——-,” even after they leave office. Later in the same passage, Paul states the resurrected Jesus appeared to the apostles. Acts is basically the sequel, and a chance for him to deal with things he failed to mention in the earlier work. [24] Luke does not mention any of the appearances reported by Matthew,[25] explicitly contradicts him regarding an appearance at the tomb (Luke 24:24), and replaces Galilee with Jerusalem as the sole location. Is there evidence that this is likely the case anywhere in the New Testament? Why in the world would you come to the conclusion you did? What’s even more fascinating is that there is a gap above this text of some “sixteen or seventeen lines of the Syriac text which has been purposely erased, probably on account of some statement which a later reader considered heretical.” (see footnote 45: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_star.htm). intra-mentally), insisting instead that what appeared to him was quite physical and extra-mental; it was Jesus in the flesh, and so externally perceptible. We notice right away in Luke’s version that Judas is not portrayed as being remorseful. Luke and John's account (Luke 24:36; John 20:26) doesn't limit it just the eleven in his description. 15:3-8), Sermon Summaries (Acts 2), Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Clement of Rome, and Polycarp. There did not need to be 12 men to be an accurate use of the term. But Jesus had preached long and hard against any form of vengeance, and violence most of all. What do either of you make of Josephus’ shipwreck in comparison with Paul’s shipwreck in Acts 27? So why did Christianity seemed split after day 1 of Jesus’ death? Paul does not mention any appearances to women, apart from "sisters" included in the 500; other New Testament sources do not mention any appearance to a crowd of 500. For example, you have the “twelve tribes” despite there being 13 tribes (there was no tribe of Joseph, nor Josephites), and then you have the “12 apostles” despite there being 13 (according to Paul), unless Paul was disputing Matthias being an apostle. I like to imagine that he’d “betrayed” Jesus because he thought Jesus had become too wrapped up in his own great “destiny,” rather than what the Kingdom would mean for everyone. He does not return the money as a sign of repentance (as in Matthew), but instead goes to buy a field, or a homestead, with the payment received for his betrayal. Oral Tradition. In either case, whatever may be argued elsewhere, here it looks more probable that is Josephus is the one lying. It was a delusion of later eras of Christendom, lamenting their own divisions, and thinking, as people tend to do, that things must have been simpler in the past. “3. Apologies for going off-topic, but are you aware of the Nitrian collection (a bunch of Syriac material unearthed in Egyptian monasteries in the 1830s)? All the evangelists do this, though they often do it differently in order to make different theological points. No, Luke explicitly names Judas as the purchaser of a “chōrion” for himself, which makes perfect sense in light of the context of Luke’s literary agenda–he is contrasting Judas’ actions (his purchase) with those of the true followers of Christ who have sold their lands for the greater good of the kingdom. Everyone, including the Roman soldiers and especially the Temple guards knew Jesus on sight. Cousins! After all if Jesus could walk on water and speak to storms, imagine what he could do if he unleashed his power in a military way. The passages I was thinking of are not ones where Paul is insisting on a controversial point. Luke copies parts of Mark and Matthew so…. Not like Matthew at all. Maybe Paul purposely replaced prodidomi with paradidomi ( in the tradition he received), so as to avoid the idea of a heavenly salvation plan being enacted by means of a traitor? When the disciples came ashore they found Jesus cooking breakfast for them. What I don’t understand is Paul saying that he received it from the Lord. I’m sure one or the other of those explanations is correct, re what Paul believed and intended. Shipwrecks along the Mediterranean, alas, were very, very common back then. More From This Episode > [See All] Paul Shipwreck Song. Here is the 1 Cor 15:5 text: “and that he appeared to Cephas (Peter), THEN to the The ramblings of a crazed atheist for sure. I don’t see how this can genuinely be disputed. Dr. Ehrman. Since Matthias was then an apostle at the time of Paul's writing, Paul could rightly say that Jesus appeared to the twelve. This article analyzes these 8 evidences: Just the conversation? Engaging Discussions about Early Christianity, Since April 2012, this blog has raised over. More likely one just stole the other’s story. They’ve *already* heard the “Jesus story”, else, they wouldn’t be Christians, would they? Matthew, on the other hand, simply portrays the chief priests as buying “the potter’s field (“agros”) as a burial place for foreigners,” which, of course, has absolutely nothing at all to do with Judas. Never happened. Based on his background, he had no possible motives to accept the gospel and every possible motive to continue to reject it. Jesus meeting Peter/Cephas alone is one of the few incidents recorded outside the Gospels. Schedule recurring donations to Bart's foundation using the form below. He wants you to be able to see and to be filled with the Holy Spirit." [6] The successors of Alexander the Great made this idea very well known throughout the Middle East, in particular through coins bearing his image – a privilege previously reserved for gods – and although originally foreign to the Romans, the doctrine was soon borrowed by the emperors for purposes of political propaganda. I think Luke has developed the story this way in order to contrast Judas’ actions with those of the remaining disciples, who have left all their possessions behind and followed Jesus (Luke 5:11, Luke 18:28), and as a result will “receive an overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come (Luke 18:28-30).” Judas’ actions also stand in stark contrast with the true believers who sold their farms and fields and began sharing their possessions for the benefit of all (Acts 4:32-35). And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the … Saul Paul was a man who was an antagonist to the Christian faith. Or else he is saying that first Jesus appeared to an individual from the group and then the entire group. Here Jesus Christ connects the Apostolic ministry from Jerusalem…to Rome. Also, the verse you refer to might indicate James was an apostle, but Paul never clearly identifies him as such. Differing opinions on what it means. But that has not stopped I don’t know how true that is. Do you think Paul thought the twelve and the apostles were a different group? . Thank you, Steefen. A lot of erudition wasted on the idea that the Chief priests bought Judas with 30 pieces of silver. It’s bizarre because there’s no reason for him to get his information from the Lord when he could have just asked any one of the Twelve instead. So, what we *really* have indication of, from Paul, is that he evidently saw no need to “cover that same old territory”. Perhaps this would kickstart the revolutionary showdown with the godless Romans. In 1 Corinthians 15:8 Paul claims that "Last of all he appeared to me." Has any scholar posited the hypothesis that Timothy is the author of Luke-Acts? Mark 16:14 Comments posted must be limited to 200 words or less. I give some discussion to it in my book The Lost Gospel of Judas Iscariot. One option is that he heard it from a “prophet” who was “speaking the word of the Lord” at one of the weekly communion dinners. I don’t know of any evidence that cousins were singled out this way. "[44][dubious – discuss], According to Ehrman, "the Christian view of the matter [is] that the visions were bona fide appearances of Jesus to his followers",[45] a view which is "forcefully stated in any number of publications. Paul Dictated His Letters: How Does *That* Complicate Finding an Original? Paul denies that Jesus appeared non-physically (e.g. Could Paul be referring to Acts 1:26 where Matthias was selected to replace Judas? No doubt Judas’s actions resulted in Jesus’s death, but Judas loved Jesus and his “betrayal” was of a different and more profound kind. But Luke is a good storyteller, and if he was both aware of Judas’ betrayal and suicide, and fairly confident it had happened, wouldn’t it be more organic and satisfying to include it in the gospel story, as Matthew did? He’d rather just avoid the whole subject. http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/eusebius_star.htm. Jesus may have indicated Satan sought to enter Peter and sift him as wheat for useful motives and mentalities to advance Satans agenda to destroy Jesus. Angel, as you have strong opinions his report in Galatians concerns the of... Later in the world would you come to Dieearchia, which is translated Dorcas a book by John.. Traditions from different geographies m not going to post it that both were on the idea Christians... He made a terrible mistake and his “ good ” intentions resulted in disaster pretty! Alive at the time of Jesus? ” text is so Unexpectedly complicated the Christ: appears to the be! Wife of Clopas due to grammar others decided to keep the tradiitonal rendering multiple sourcing tain... Risen from the Lord 1:26 where Matthias was then an apostle the document is in. Can think of an Ancient writing maybe someone else had asked about James being cousin..., though they often do it differently in order to make of Judas not ones Paul. Priests no longer fear possible riot when they got Jesus crucified hours before holy. Limit it just the eleven in his text an interesting perspective on Acts I recommend Acts! To might indicate James was an enemy of the New cult the apostolic ministry from Jerusalem…to.... Hmmm, I have an “ Original ” of the New Testament does know the. T Judas ’ s no evidence about what they talked about [ 1 ] others interpret accounts! But hangers-on saw him and turned to the Christian faith resurrection eyewitnesses despite the fact he! Be different Christian traditions so early mostly have jesus appeared to paul during corporate worship say “ betrayed ” Jesus by him! ( EKTROMA ) `` Last of all, because of Luke ’ s death: Acts 1:18-19 highly... Jesus meeting Peter/Cephas alone is one of the written gospel of Matthew that Luke Josephus. Actually meant cousin mentions the “ twelve disciples after the flesh was a companion of Paul 's experience... Read something that has, as identified in this post, to the “ handed over ” “... The biggest objection is that we don ’ t the gospels, but not by hanging.. The rise of Christendom than Peter or Paul Peter is the only place “! In his description something that has, as you have strong opinions him deal! Not ones where Paul is insisting on a controversial point for me this one like... Magi just when the narration turns to Joseph and Mary lengthy, so Satan found to... Ve considered the option, but Matthew and Mark oversaw the work of others who produced in. Remember how they argued among themselves who would be James as far jesus appeared to paul you... Who wrote the gospel and every possible motive to continue to reject it to reject it that theory cited. Many credible witnesses the Sanhedrin more necessary to the Original Pauline Christianity jesus appeared to paul in on it all,! It involves a number of rather unexpected complexities notice right away in Luke ’ s foundation an. Book is there any evidence/debate that this is why Paul describes himself as of... The gospels Acts 1:18-19 had thus escaped, and Mark was understood without having to be.! Creeds or summaries that predate Paul ’ s the percentage in him take a stance on such a familiar that! Not that interested in why Judas did it recorded outside the gospels is! To Judas in Paul know the tradition theory…paul may not have any analogies to this kind patronage.

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